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tommykat1 Profile
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XP10 Dyna-Sonic Member

Registered: 06-2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 6274
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Re: My XP-8 "rescue" kit


I am, quite honestly, totally stunned at this. Totally and completely. I am experienced with lacquer paint on car finishes--I have restored and painted with this media. Lacquer thinner fumes alone can melt lacquer paint. Lacquer thinner as a liquid will immediately and permanently stain lacquer painted surfaces. Therefore, I am convinced that the TSB finish (and maybe others) is not true lacquer. Enamel has undergone changes over the years, from the old petroleum based products to the current water based. However, lacquer is lacquer, old school, pure and simple, and if the TSB drums were coated in lacquer, your shells would immediately suffer the worst for your efforts.

Therefore--and with total astonishment--I am firmly convinced that TSB drums are NOT finished in lacquer.

Note that lacquer thinner has no effect on enamel...

Okay, so I've stated my case. Has anybody else here worked with lacquer and found the same results I have?
6/23/2012, 6:45 pm Link to this post Send Email to tommykat1   Send PM to tommykat1
 
tommykat1 Profile
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Registered: 06-2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 6274
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Re: My XP-8 "rescue" kit


BTW, 73Rogers, your restoration is a total joy to behold!

Last edited by tommykat1, 6/23/2012, 6:46 pm
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bigtone23 Profile
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Registered: 09-2009
Location: Denver CO
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Re: My XP-8 "rescue" kit


Awesome work!

I'm guessing that since Rogers learned how to spray bursts from Fender that they used the same materials to paint. If so, it's probably not nitrocellulose lacquer, but a polyurethane finish. Nitro would easily come off with acetone and many other common removal liquids, poly is really hard to mess up, which is why the original burst is so nice and tough today.

Spraying a thin nitro finish became heavily regulated by the EPA and expensive to do in CA, so Fender switched to poly in the late 60s. Poly is thicker and more durable than nitro, as well as much faster to dry and easier to apply. Not to say that Rogers didn't use nitro, because finish checking is way more consistent to a nitro finish. I'm positive there are WAY less spray-finished Rogers drums vs Fender guitars out there, so they may have used nitro in small amounts.
 
Many finishes get small finish cracks or 'checking' from being exposed to the cold for a while, taken into a warm place and quickly exposed to the warmth. Let your drums sit in the case and acclimate a little bit after bringing them in from the cold to minimize checking.

---
1981ish Midnight Mist XP-8: 10 12 13 14 Rack Toms 15, 16 & 18 Floor Toms 22 & 24 Bass Drums 14x7.5" Snare Drum
1977ish 14x5" COB Dynasonic
1980ish 14x6.5" COS SuperTen
1981ish Silver Metallic XP-8 22x14" horizontal bass drum
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73Rogers Profile
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Registered: 07-2010
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Re: My XP-8 "rescue" kit


Thanks for all the positive comments guys. You are a tough crowd to impress, so it means a lot. emoticon
I've always wanted a TSB kit and never thought I'd be able to afford one, so this one is extra special to me too.

Tommy - I know what you are saying. My friend said the same thing - "if this is lacquer, it's going to come right off". That's why we tried the alcohol first.

The paint had no effect on the finish either, even the primer didn't bite into the original finish. I'm just glad whoever painted them didn't sand them first!

Couple of interesting things about this kit. It's a 12, 13, 18, 22 kit. Maybe there was a 16FT that got separated, but it seems like an odd config otherwise. It's also a 14x22 BD. I thought by the XP-8 days they were all 16x22?
Also, from looking at the pics of your TSB sets and others I've seen online, this set seems to have less of the natural band and more of the fade - do you guys agree. or have I just not seen enough TSB kits?

One other thing that really surprised me was how light these drums are compared to my 73 swivo set and how thin the shells are. I can't wait to hear them sing.

---
Wanted: 16" XP-8 TSB FT
20" BD - NE White
6/24/2012, 8:31 am Link to this post Send Email to 73Rogers   Send PM to 73Rogers
 
tommykat1 Profile
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Registered: 06-2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: My XP-8 "rescue" kit


And sing they will! I just set mine up again the other day. I've been gigging and rehearsing with my 1967 Londoner 5, and I was getting tired of the constant setup/teardown in the practice room. My bandmates and I immediately noticed a difference, and not just the tuning. The drums sound more modern and they project much, much more. "Louder" is what my band mates said. Dang, I'd forgotten how great they sound. I'm still going to gig my Londoner 5, as the TSB finish is just too fragile to chuck around every night, but I sure like the sound.

As for the finish, it varied, but photos are also deceptive.

My bass is also 14 x 22.

I have to say, 73Rogers, you really lucked into a special drum set. And the fact that you can get the paint off without messing up the finish is astounding.

Are there any/many chips in the TSB finish? They get easily dinged, and if they are fairly pristine it would indicate that they were mainly gigged in days of their painted outer covering.

6/24/2012, 2:38 pm Link to this post Send Email to tommykat1   Send PM to tommykat1
 
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Re: My XP-8 "rescue" kit


Tommy -
the chips in the 12 that you can see near the badge are the only ones on the set. There are a lot of places where the spray paint has come off and you can see the original finish below, but those are the only "down to the wood" chips I've discovered so far. The BD has none.
There are quite a few gouges inside the BD so I think they were probably transported with one or more of the smaller drums inside, esp since at one time the front lugs were removed and lost as well as the hoop.
The hoop I have is kinda nicked up but I haven't decided if I'll leave it as is ("character") or try to touch it up. The more I see those chips on the 12, the more I want to try to at least make them less noticeable.


---
Wanted: 16" XP-8 TSB FT
20" BD - NE White
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Re: My XP-8 "rescue" kit


Now that I figured out the process, things went faster in round two. I spent 2.5 hrs at it today, and...

Image

I still need to clean up the edges of the BD, and I'm going to try scraping the paint off the bearing edges (carefully).
What do you guys recommend for cleaning the interiors? They are bare wood - no interior finish applied.

I'm also debating what to do about the paint left under the lugs. It is very difficult to get that off, I guess because it was protected from air. I may just leave it unless I can find a better tool or method to get it off.

---
Wanted: 16" XP-8 TSB FT
20" BD - NE White
6/25/2012, 1:26 pm Link to this post Send Email to 73Rogers   Send PM to 73Rogers
 
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Re: My XP-8 "rescue" kit


Seeing is believing...

Youtube video

---
Wanted: 16" XP-8 TSB FT
20" BD - NE White
6/25/2012, 2:16 pm Link to this post Send Email to 73Rogers   Send PM to 73Rogers
 
tommykat1 Profile
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Registered: 06-2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 6274
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Re: My XP-8 "rescue" kit


The interiors should be clear lacquer, not bare wood. The BD hoops are simply glossy black lacquer.

(There's that lacquer word again. My painting world has been turned upside down because of this...!)

I'm wondering how important it is to remove the paint from under the lug area. The lugs should have black felt under them (supplied in the later XP8 lacquered sets), so it will hide any areas where a little paint might be exposed.
otherwise, that lacquer thinner routine really should work, given enough time and rubbing.

Beautiful treasure you have there, 73Rogers! Now you might have to call yourself 83Rogers--for the XP8 era! emoticon
6/25/2012, 3:16 pm Link to this post Send Email to tommykat1   Send PM to tommykat1
 
73Rogers Profile
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Re: My XP-8 "rescue" kit


The interiors are definitely bare wood - there's no finish applied.

I test fit a lug into every space as they currently sit and you wouldn't see any paint at all. It took a long time to get the 12 completely clean, and those were small. The 20 big lugs on the BD + the leg and tom mount = emoticon

The next step will be to finish the edges of the BD and then I might try the thinner on a scotchbrite pad on the insides. There is some overspray on the 12 & 13 inside. The FT & BD are just dirty.

Any head recommendations for these? I prefer Aquarian.

---
Wanted: 16" XP-8 TSB FT
20" BD - NE White
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