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English Rogers Guru

Registered: 07-2007
Location: England.
Posts: 967
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Dave Clark Drum Kit Sale and Provenance.


Popular UK music paper Melody Maker 29th January 1966 has an interesting item on page three ….
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/MM29JAN_004.png
 …and here it is –
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/MM29Jan_0001.jpg
In the following week’s issue details of the competition are laid out.
5th February 1966
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/MM5Feb.jpg
“On Sunday, March 20th 1966 at the Wimbledon Palais, the prize was presented to the winner of the 'Million Pound Drum Contest'. From an entry of 2,700, Carol Offord was selected to win Dave Clark's multi-hit-making Rogers drum kit. Carol nominated her friend John Tillett (rear right) to receive the prize. “
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/60spicedit.jpg
The observant might see that the bass drum hoops have a fresh coat of black paint. In the early 60s English drum makers painted their bass drum hoops silver. Bass drum hoops can take quite a battering and by 1966 the fashion was to paint these black, so the hoops had been thoughtfully repainted before being presented to Carol. Dave’s Swiv-o-matic stands and pedals have been replaced with the English Rogers catalogue cheaper option of Ajax stands and pedals.
This is the link from Radio London’s site that first put me onto this (courtesy of John Briggs).
 http://www.radiolondon.co.uk/rl/scrap60/drumcontest/millionpound.html
Forty-four years later and John Tillett and Carol are a couple, and John still had the drums.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DSCN2765_1.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DAVECLARKFIVEPICS169.jpg
First a few acknowledgements..
For putting me on to this in the first place and dates and details, John Briggs from http://www.thedc5.com/
For loads of great photos Jason Atkins and his site http://www.thedc5collector.com/
Dan on here for an insight into the USA side of things
And Tam Rankin from the Dolbear site here in the UK.
Litgo for the photos of Keith Moon playing this kit from his great site -
http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/index.php

There aren’t many drum sets that could be said to be so associated with a particular performer, sound or time so much that it became an icon. Dave Clark’s Red Sparkle English Rogers drum kit could be said to be one. It became the most important English Rogers set ever made, and one of the most influential sets of the 60s. Easily recognisable with its two tom toms mounted on the bass drum, unusual for its time, the popularity of the Dave Clark Five popularised this setup, inspired Rogers USA to produce the “Dave Clark Londoner” set and set a pattern which has continued to this day.
There are some early photos of the DC5 show DC with Trixon kit.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/Trixon2.jpg
 The DC5 had a promotional deal with Vox whereby the DC5 would be photographed with vox equipment on TV and photo sessions. Trixon was a Vox company. Trixon drums were badged as Vox in the USA. The photo is from 1964 so it appears to have been taken after DC had acquired his English Rogers Red Sparkle.
 
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/EarlyERRS.jpg
This picture is from early 1964. Note that there is a damper on the floor tom and no bass drum anchor, a small modification that was made at a later date.
When I got to see John’s set it was clear that shells are all 3 ply birch except the snare drum which is 3 ply beech. This is fairly normal for English Rogers. More snare drums appear to be made of beech than birch.
Unusually, all the drums have serial numbers. The snare, bass, and small toms are all in the range 78*** which places them in Aug/Sept ’63. The floor tom however is 81001 which is December ’63. This appears to present a dating problem, but there is a simple explanation for this. As part of their live show the DC5 playing had 3 or 4 floor toms positioned at the front of the stage. At some point in the show DC came forward (I am told during “Big Noise from Winnetka).

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/dc5_live002.jpg
So the band was carrying around more than one Red Sparkle 16”x16” floor tom. It looks like they got mixed up, or maybe DC choose the sweet one for himself and this had stayed with the kit.
There are many photographs on the internet of Dave Clark playing this kit in live and TV appearances within Europe. It is easily recognisable if you know what to look for.
Let us first consider the bass drum - here is a standard 20” English Rogers bass drum.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DSCN3157.jpg
This is one that I just happened to be working on. It dates from late 1966 so is quite a bit later than DC’s bass drum in question. This one has the later beavertail lugs as opposed to the bread and butter lugs on DC’s drums. The arrangement of the fittings on the drum remained standard through English Rogers production. Sometimes bass drums have had extra fitting added but the basic configuration is always the same. There is a straight collet to the players left to take a swiv-o-matic tom tom arm and an angled collet to the players right to take a disappearing cymbal holder. This required holes to be drilled in the drum which can be seen with the collet plate removed.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DSCN3149.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DSCN2730_1.jpg
Compare this with the bass drum on John’s set. The cymbal holder has never been present. This could only have happened by arrangement with the factory – unique in my experience. The collet plate to the left was in the usual position but another straight collet plate has been added to the top centre of the bass drum to take the extra tom. Also note the non-Rogers chrome headed bolts to the right of the photo.
It would normally be expected that and English Rogers bass drum has a reinforcement plate inside the bass drum to help with the weight of the tom tom.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DSCN3163.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DSCN2734_1.jpg
There is no sign that any such plate was installed in DC’s bass drum. Also note the non-Rogers bolts to the left now seen from inside.
There are 6-8 pairs of small holes around the bass drum shell. A pair can be seen in the photo above just above the small red stain. A small plate appears to have been secured to the inside of the shell at these locations.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DSCN2732_1.jpg
12/5/2011, 3:16 pm Link to this post Send Email to Nut box   Send PM to Nut box
 
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English Rogers Guru

Registered: 07-2007
Location: England.
Posts: 967
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Re: Dave Clark Drum Kit Sale and Provenance.


Apparently DC had flashing lights in some of his drums during early tours as this interesting cable entering the floor tom would seem to show. His bass drum also had lights fitted. More cables below –
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/Dave%20Clark/cables.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/ERRSwithcable.jpg
The floor tom in the above photo appears to be one of those used at the front to f the stage. It has no damper installed and is therefore not the original one that came with the kit. The damper control knob would be visible to the right side of the drum in this photo. As there is no knob to be seen, the most likely explanation is that this drum is one of those from the front of the stage and the cable is to supply lighting in the drum.
This is a later photo showing the modifications of bass drum anchor and chrome headed bolts having been added presumably for the light show.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/LaterERRS.jpg photo around 1965

The Ajax bass drum anchor (to stop the bass drum creeping forward when being played) requires 4 holes to be drilled in the bass drum hoop and is then a permanent fixture.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/7e61_31.jpg
These were standard on Ajax Nu-Sound kits produced from 1965 onward and not commonly seen on English Rogers.
The chrome headed bolts can also be seen here.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/LaterERRS2.jpg
I haven’t seen any photos that would lead me to think that these modifications took place at different times.
Next the mounted tom toms - Both these drums have been produced to be suitable for use as a single mounted tom for a right handed player. This can be seen from the position of the collect plate, chromed script logo and damper control knob on each drum. DC’s later White Pearl English Rogers was drilled so that both logos faced forward when mounted side by side on the bass drum (see later). Back in 1963 it was not common to have 2 toms mounted on the bass drum and so this refinement was yet to take place. The placement of all the elements on photos of DC’s kit clearly tally with their placement on John’s kit in every respect. Not only that, the inclusion of a damper in an English Rogers tom tom was in no way standard. I have owned ten English Rogers drum kits to date and none has had original Ajax dampers in the toms. Of the many that I have seen only one other kit had tom dampers, and that leads me to believe that they were only installed at customer request.
(early 1964)

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/962686.jpg
This is a later photograph and shows the bass drum anchor.
The floor tom tom that was original to the kit also had a damper installed. It can be clearly seen below and in some of the foregoing pictures –
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DAVECLARKFIVEPICS128.jpg early 1964
 http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DSCN2736.jpg
The floor tom that John received with the kit had no damper.
In order to get the toms close together on top of the bass, Dave Clark swung them round so that the collet plates on the toms were almost facing him. This pushed the toms much further over the front of the bass than most drummers would be comfortable with, and meant that he had to push his snare far forward to get close to them.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DSCN2750.jpg

 It has to be said that DC can hardly ever be seen to hit these toms. They were probably there more for the look than to compliment his playing style.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DSCN2751.jpg
This is one of the inner pages of the English Rogers 1965 catalogue,
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/text020.jpg

and inside the catalogue was a postcard itemising DC's setup. (Note the flush based Ajax cymbal stand to Dave Clark’s right.)
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DaveClark.jpg

DC's endorsement deal with English Rogers would appear to have started in August/September 1963, with his "photo" appearing in the catalogue in 1965.
Incredibly B&H never pushed home their advantage in making available any twin tom outfit in the English Rogers range. Not even that but they stopped using the Red Sparkle wrap around the end of 1964. Ajax had a long history of putting two toms on the bass drum right back to the 40s. In the US the Dave Clark Londoner set-up as it became known was hugely popular. Eddie Ryan has said that Dave Clark using Rogers drums increased sales in the UK, but you have to wonder how much more could have been achieved if B&H had made a “Londoner” kit (see later) and kept the Red Sparkle wrap in production.

Dave Clark’s other sets in the UK.

There are photos around on the internet of DC playing a number of other English Rogers drum kits, but the one below in particular turns up frequently.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/CollegeGirl1.jpg
These pictures come from the shooting of a film entitled “Get yourself a college girl” in 1964. The DC5 were appearing in a summer season in Blackpool at the time of the shooting and had been flown down to the studio for the day in a light aircraft. The drum set was very likely supplied by the film company. It is a Red Sparkle English Rogers but not the one that he usually appeared with. There are differences: no dampers in the toms, no collet plate top centre of the bass drum, black bass drum hoops, Ajax stands as opposed to the swivo stands that DC normally used. Although this set was only used for the shooting of this film (and possibly for only one day) there are many photos of this photo session on the net.

There are many other photos which show DC playing a variety of ER and USA Rogers but John’s set was DC’s original Red Sparkle Rogers which he used for European appearances between mid 1963 and early 1966.

12/5/2011, 3:18 pm Link to this post Send Email to Nut box   Send PM to Nut box
 
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English Rogers Guru

Registered: 07-2007
Location: England.
Posts: 967
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Re: Dave Clark Drum Kit Sale and Provenance.


Rogers USA introduced the Dave Clark Londoner outfit in their 1967 catalogue. This had two toms mounted on the bass drum using their new swiv-o-matic duel tom holder and was shown in Red Sparkle.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DCLondoner67.jpg

Clearly John’s set along with the slightly later US versions were the inspiration for The Dave Clark Londoner. The Rogers/B&H deal had come full circle with English Rogers now influencing Rogers USA. However I have never seen a photo of DC playing a Rogers Dave Clark Londoner as it appears in the 1967 catalogue with the double tom holder.

It may be that D C was not the most gifted drummer around in the 60s and it may also be that he didn’t make much use of the extra tom toms on this drum kit, but despite that, this drum kit represents a milestone in the evolution of the rock drum kit. DC was not the first drummer to put two toms on his bass drum, and the same set-up had been offered by some drum manufactures, but with the success of the DC5 this set-up was popularised. Once DC had done it, it wasn’t long before others added extra tom toms to their sets. By the end of the 60s Ringo had two toms on his bass drum, and through the 70s and 80s more and more tom toms became the norm. Most sets bought off the shelf these days would be expected to have two toms on the bass drum. Interesting to think that all this may have come about simply because Rogers drums were being produced just down the road from where DC was based.
It is astonishing that B&H never offered a Dave Clark drum kit in the English Rogers catalogues. The Rogers USA DC Londoner became hugely popular. It makes you wonder how different B&H’s drum manufacturing might have fared if they had not done so.

Finally, it wasn’t only DC who played this set ……………………………….
On 31 Dec. 1965, The Who appeared on the popular TV show “Ready Steady Go!” in a special called “The New Year Starts Here.”
Keith Moon borrowed DC’s during rehearsals. Photos of the broadcast show the same kit fitted with a “The Who” logo on the bass drum skin.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/dclark5kit-1.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/km_brwd_daveclark_kit_full.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/dclark5kit-who11.jpg

IN THE USA

The DC5’s first US appearance was the Ed Sullivan show in March 1964. DC appeared with a US Rogers Red Sparkle which was configured similarly but not quite the same as the ER he used at home.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/EdSullivan.jpg
The DC5’s first appearance on the Ed Sullivan show March 1964.
If you ordered a a Dave Clark drum kit in the USA between 1964 and 1967 this is what you would get.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/rog1420rsDCV14.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DaveClark5ReplicaSet007.jpg
If you look at the photos and video of the DC5's first appearance in the USA it does appear that this is exactly what DC was playing. It does look as if Rogers had this setup prepared for DC before the band arrived in the US. Someone had taken the trouble to make sure that the script logos on the drums faced forward, even though the mounted toms were “the wrong way round”.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/4.jpg 1965 pic
DC appeared with this kit many times.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/sull.jpg 1965 SHINDIG
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DC5RarePics036.jpg 1966
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/DC5RarePics037.jpg 1965
In 1965 the DC5 appeared a number of times on the US TV show “Shindig”.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/ShindigPowertone.jpg
DC appeared using a Silver Sparkle or perhaps Champagne Sparkle Powertone set. Again someone had taken the trouble to get the tom tom logos in the right places.
This was a forerunner to the Dave Clark Londoner. The earlier twin tom holder (aka a “Top Hat”) had been used. Also DC is using a 22” bass drum and a chrome-over-brass Powertone snare drum.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/ShindigPowertone2.jpg
After DC gave his drums away.
After DC gave his drum kit to John in early 1966 the kit that DC is most often seen with and right up to 1970 when the DC5 disbanded, is a White Pearl English Rogers.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/WhitePearl1.jpg 1969
This set now has the later beavertail lugs that were introduced in the UK at the beginning of 1965, quite a bit later than in the USA. The Rogers logo on the bass drum head is the one which appears to have been adopted for English Rogers at the same time that the lug design was changed.
This kit too has an arrangement of collet plates on the bass drum which could only have been done the cooperation of the factory. Note that both the collet plates are now within the top panel of the bass drum.
This is a rare occasion on which DC had his tom toms “the right way round”. Note how the logos both face forward.
No dampers now in the tom toms.
Notice that DC here is playing an American wood shell Powertone snare drum with this English kit.
It isn’t very clear in this photograph but the floor tom has the earlier bread and butter lugs. http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/white2.jpg 1969
The DC5 were still using floor toms at the front of the stage for their live appearances. http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/WhitePearlwithDyna.jpg 1967
This is another shot of the same kit which shows the collet plate locations from a different angle and this time DC is playing an American chrome-over-brass Dynasonic with his English set.
Some other UK kits.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/OtherERs.jpg
The kit that DC is using here is an English Rogers with the later bass drum logo. The finish is a dark pearl. It could be blue, red or black. The two 16x16 floor toms at the front are in Grey Ripple finish (as in the example bass drum earlier). Grey Ripple was English Rogers most popular finish.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/OtherERs2.jpg

This kit is English Rogers in Grey Ripple. It has the earlier bread and butter lugs (pre 1965) and the standard English Rogers Collet locations are being used to mount the toms.
Oddments.
American Rogers with British Premier hi-hat and cymbal stand.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb77/nutbox/DC%20Thread/Curious.jpg
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JohnPloughman Profile
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ROF Drum Head

Registered: 06-2008
Posts: 1369
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Re: Dave Clark Drum Kit Sale and Provenance.


I read your article at Not So Modern Drummer.

Most Excellent!!!!

---
Big R Period Dating Guide for Snares and Drums.....
http://brogersownersforum.runboard.com/t5810
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Dan1C Profile
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ROF Resident Guru

Registered: 05-2009
Location: Getin-sitdown-shutup-holdon
Posts: 955
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Re: Dave Clark Drum Kit Sale and Provenance.


A huge amount of research, photos and writing. Quite an impressive effort. Thanks very much!

Even at a young age, I always had my suspicions about DC as a drummer. I never, ever saw him play live on any tv show. Always the band was playing with a record. As time went on, a lot of other groups played live on tv; the Beatles, Animals, Kinks, Beach Boys, even The Doors, etc etc.

He surrounded himself with real players, but he didn't even sing lead. Most of the vocals were group harmonies: I never even could tell you what he sounded like.

I believe he was probably ghosted on drums in the studio as well.

In short, I've come to think of him as a promoter, showman, handsome face, impresario, producer.

But not a musician.

Still has his place in history, but for other reasons, in my view.

No matter, he turned me on to Rogers when i was 14, and for that I'm grateful...


Last edited by Dan1C, 12/7/2011, 3:12 am


---
All Rogers, all the time.
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XP10 Dyna-Sonic Member

Registered: 06-2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 6274
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Re: Dave Clark Drum Kit Sale and Provenance.


Nut Box, your research and documentation is stupendous. Beyond words. Great job!
12/7/2011, 1:30 am Link to this post Send Email to tommykat1   Send PM to tommykat1
 
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English Rogers Guru

Registered: 07-2007
Location: England.
Posts: 967
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Re: Dave Clark Drum Kit Sale and Provenance.


Thanks for the kind words guys.

You will have noticed I have been posting this around the net.

I had a lot of help from the people I acknowledge and in particular Jason Atkins and his site http://www.thedc5collector.com/ who gave me whatever photos I asked for. He must have thousands.



Last edited by Nut box, 11/26/2014, 3:46 am
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Burt66 Profile
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Registered: 08-2010
Location: England
Posts: 21
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Re: Dave Clark Drum Kit Sale and Provenance.


Nice work Nutbox!

Interesting read.

Burt
12/7/2011, 7:36 am Link to this post Send Email to Burt66   Send PM to Burt66 Blog
 
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Registered: 06-2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 6274
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Re: Dave Clark Drum Kit Sale and Provenance.


quote:

Nut box wrote:

I felt compelled to write this because I was told that when DC got wind of the sale he would do whatever he could to get it withdrawn, which would have been very unfair to John who has taken care of the drums all these years. I wanted to show without any doubt that this was the set that DC had used.



Has DC given any indication why he's being so anal about this?
12/8/2011, 1:10 am Link to this post Send Email to tommykat1   Send PM to tommykat1
 
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English Rogers Guru

Registered: 07-2007
Location: England.
Posts: 967
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Re: Dave Clark Drum Kit Sale and Provenance.






I am also told that the White Pearl English Rogers was sold through Rick Huxley's music shop in the 1970s. So it is all a bit of a mystery.

Last edited by Nut box, 11/26/2014, 3:47 am
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