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Swivomatic Profile
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Registered: 06-2008
Posts: 37
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Re: The making of English Rogers and the myth of shipped parts.


For some reason I don't think pics printed!

I will try again later!

How frustrating................patience guys!

6/29/2008, 4:54 am Link to this post Send Email to Swivomatic   Send PM to Swivomatic
 
Nut box Profile
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English Rogers Guru

Registered: 07-2007
Location: England.
Posts: 967
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Re: The making of English Rogers and the myth of shipped parts.


Swivo, mate, I'm logging on every few minutes desperate to see your photos. Have pity!
7/1/2008, 3:48 pm Link to this post Send Email to Nut box   Send PM to Nut box
 
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Registered: 06-2008
Posts: 37
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Re: The making of English Rogers and the myth of shipped parts.


Try again!Image[/img]
7/2/2008, 2:44 am Link to this post Send Email to Swivomatic   Send PM to Swivomatic
 
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Registered: 06-2008
Posts: 37
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posticon Re: The making of English Rogers and the myth of shipped parts.


Hi Guys,

I'm so da.....n frustrated....can't seem to download any photo's from photobucket! What am I doing wrong.

Maybe I could e-mail them to Nut Box to get put on?

HELP!!!

(I'm only a drummer!)

7/2/2008, 2:51 am Link to this post Send Email to Swivomatic   Send PM to Swivomatic
 
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English Rogers Guru

Registered: 07-2007
Location: England.
Posts: 967
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Re: The making of English Rogers and the myth of shipped parts.


Hi Martin
I have sent you email.
cheers
Alan
7/2/2008, 4:56 am Link to this post Send Email to Nut box   Send PM to Nut box
 
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Registered: 06-2008
Posts: 37
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Re: The making of English Rogers and the myth of shipped parts.


Hi Jack

Thanks for further advice.

I will try again when I get some decent pics but in meantime Nutbox is kindly publishing them for me.

I also have an awesome number of questions for Ajax man Eddie Ryan who I hope to speak to before the week is out!

  
7/2/2008, 1:49 pm Link to this post Send Email to Swivomatic   Send PM to Swivomatic
 
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Registered: 06-2008
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Re: The making of English Rogers and the myth of shipped parts.


Hi Guys

I have at last spoken to Eddie Ryan. Wow a real mine of information! I think we have contacted him just in time as he retires next year after some 50 years in drum building.

Nutbox raised a lot of questions and I had my own as you can imagine!

Firstly and I will try and simplify things as I was on the 'phone for some 30 minutes. Rogers started making drums under licence in England mainly because of the high import duty of 20% on American drums. An average Ajax kit then cost about £130 whereas a Rogers kit from the USA cost in the region of £440! A fortune in the early 60's. Rogers sent over Josh Rogers to carry out research into where and how the drums could be made in England and was impressed by the Edware shells which were made from Irish Ash with Beech glue rings. The reason Maple was not used was again because of the import expense and because both beech ash and birch were more plentiful in the UK. Maple was more common in the States so that was why it was generally used to make drums. Eddie met with Josh Rogers on several occasions and it was generally decided that the drums would be made at the Ajax factory using their drum making expertise but utilising Birch as the main wood for the shells. Eddie finished his apprenticeship with Edgware in 1961 and moved over to making the English Rogers drums. In the early days of production with the B&B lugs being used the drums were made with a variety of wood . As Eddie says they used whatever was available. Many of the wood drums were made from beech but a wooden Dynasonic was never produced. It appears that they had problems with some of the early wood drums. Both Edgware and Ajax were part of the Bossey & Hawkes large music empire who also produced brass instruments.

At the start of production the lugs were imported but later made by Boosey & Hawkes in Birmingham. They also started producing the other swivomatic fittings. At the beginning Ajax probably used some of its own fittings because the English ones had not come on stream. The American Rogers fittings as Eddie says were not compatible with the English ones. Many of the parts for the Dynasonic drums were imported from the USA but the shells were made in England in the factories where the brass instruments were being produced. It appears that many of the fittings were old Rogers stock. Certainly the snare frame on my 1966 English Dyno is an old design compared with the American Dyna I have which is of a similar age. Rogers decided to produce the brass drums as Eddie was informed by Josh Rogers that he was not impressed by American steel. He was therefore content to carry this forward and allow Boosey & Hawkes to produce their own brass shells. Eddie considers that the quality of tyhe English Dyna was better than the American one and particularly the chrome. He feels that the English Dyna is a lovely drum.
It appears that there was no real reason for the difference in the English Rogers script logo as far as Eddie is aware...it was just one of those things that happened.

Now serial numbers! Well Eddie says that like Gretch Premier and some other drum companies these have no significance at all and were just for reference in the factory! This is unlike Ludwig where the date the drum was made can be nailed down to the week and year without any doubt. Sorry guys! Some of the drums didn't even have numbers stamped on them. The drums could well have ben produced in conjunction with Ajax drums and have similar numbers stamped on them.

Boosey & Hawkes did not produce the swivomatic stands and BD pedals these were imported from the States Eddie thinks that virtually everything else was produced in Boosey's factories.

Nutbox has a Mardi Gras wrap on his early English Rogers but Eddie does not seem to remember this finish. He certainly remembers the grey/blue ripple that I have which was the most popular as it mimicked Ringo's black ripple Ludwig kit. However it was a long time ago so he can't remember everything.

Eddie says that Ajax were more or less left to get on with the production of the drums and had no supervision apart from Josh Rogers making the odd visit to the factory. Eddie is confident that no machinery or moulds were imported from the USA. This probably explains why it took a liitle while for English drums to establish their own identity.

Eddie was aware that a few of the drums were exported and indeed some to the States as Nutbox suspected.Whether the were actually distributed in other countries Eddie has no information.

Well I think that is all the points dealt with but Eddie has said that if anybody has any other queries then to send these to me and I will contact him direct.

Incidentally Eddie is in the process of making a new snare drum for Phil Collins at the moment .............and now you won't believe this but Eddie is not a drummer but plays a Fender Precision Bass and has done over many years in various bands! He even came out with the usual comment "I'm a musician not a drummer!!"

And finally sorry guys but I have not been able to arrange any photos of my kit yet but I will get there in the end! Phew!
7/9/2008, 6:00 am Link to this post Send Email to Swivomatic   Send PM to Swivomatic
 
Nut box Profile
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English Rogers Guru

Registered: 07-2007
Location: England.
Posts: 967
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Re: The making of English Rogers and the myth of shipped parts.


Hey Swivo, just great, you must have had a fun time. Big thanks for your efforts with this, puts flesh on the bones. I never wanted to contact Eddie cos I figured that running his own business he wouldn't want to be bothered with vintage guys like us. Shows how wrong you can be, he gave you half an hour of his time (and he isn't even a drummer).

Can't find a mention of a Josh Rogers in the Rogers book - anyone heard of him?

Jack, is it possible please to move this post to a new topic within the ER section?

So the lugs were imported at the beginning so that's me in trouble - lots humble pie to be eaten then.

I think we need to keep a low profile on the English Dyna being better, cos everyone will want one. Love that comment though.

I'm not going to give up with the serial numbers yet. So far things are in sequence although only about half the drums have numbers.
7/9/2008, 7:42 am Link to this post Send Email to Nut box   Send PM to Nut box
 
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Registered: 06-2008
Posts: 37
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Re: The making of English Rogers and the myth of shipped parts.


Thanks Nutbox

I presume that Josh Rogers was one of THE family and Eddie referred to him several times. I presume that he got the name right? I doubt it because he seemed to have a pretty ggod memory overall.

He also told me that when he was working in one of the company's London shops repairing drums for regular gigging drummers (presumably during his apprenticeship)he met Remo Belli who couldn't believe that at that time English drum companies were still fitting calf heads to their drums! He said it was one of those meetings that he recalled as if it was yesterday!

Eddie was quite adamant that the serial numbers had no relevence much as I think was the case with some of the Amercan drums although it makes sense to think that they had some use within the factory.

It certainly seems as though initially the English drums were put together in a hurried attempt to capture the market. Eddie says that like American guitars there was a big appetite for American drums at that time but of course their high price made them prohibitive. A Premier kit was cheaper than an Ajax at the time so consequentially became the best seller. He is of the opinion that Ludwig, Gretch and the like did not fully import into the UK until later in the 60's when import restrictions were lifted. He remarked that Trixon drums were the first to be imported and I certainly remember these from my very early drumming days.
 Isn't it a shame that there was not an English Wood Dynasonic made.............now that would be interesting! (Sorry no pun intended!) emoticon
7/9/2008, 8:15 am Link to this post Send Email to Swivomatic   Send PM to Swivomatic
 
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English Rogers Guru

Registered: 07-2007
Location: England.
Posts: 967
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Re: The making of English Rogers and the myth of shipped parts.


Hi Swivo, according to the Rogers book there were 10 English Rogers wood shell dynas made as prototypes and it has a photo of one. Rob Cook gives no indication of where they might be now.

Natural to presume that Josh was one of the family but Henry Grossman owned Rogers from the mid 50s, so maybe he was and maybe he wasn't.
7/9/2008, 8:33 am Link to this post Send Email to Nut box   Send PM to Nut box
 


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