Runboard.com
Слава Україні!

runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?)

Page:  1  2 

 
Nut box Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

English Rogers Guru

Registered: 07-2007
Location: England.
Posts: 967
Reply | Quote
Who made the hardware?


I think it correct to say that in the early 60s Rogers used the “Buck Rogers” type of snare stand made by Walburg & Auge. The same was used by other drum companies as well. There were many different versions.

Did Walburg & Auge manufacture other items for Rogers as well? In the catalogues you see “Buck Rogers” snare stands with Rogers' characteristic swan neck legs. So, what about the cymbal stands and the swivo hardware?

Seen a few W&A drum sets lately with Rogers beavertail lugs, like this one ………

W&A drum set on the DFO


They also have Rogers bowties. Leads you to question why a company that make hardware would go to Rogers for lugs and rods. Was it that they were making those for Rogers as well?
11/20/2009, 6:13 am Link to this post Send Email to Nut box   Send PM to Nut box
 
Dan1C Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

ROF Resident Guru

Registered: 05-2009
Location: Getin-sitdown-shutup-holdon
Posts: 955
Reply | Quote
Re: Who made the hardware?


WA was a foundry and made many parts for Rogers, among others...

---
All Rogers, all the time.
11/20/2009, 1:48 pm Link to this post Send Email to Dan1C   Send PM to Dan1C Blog
 
Nut box Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

English Rogers Guru

Registered: 07-2007
Location: England.
Posts: 967
Reply | Quote
Re: Who made the hardware?


Thanks Dan. emoticon
11/21/2009, 3:03 pm Link to this post Send Email to Nut box   Send PM to Nut box
 
Grefal Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Banned user

Registered: 12-2009
Posts: 84
Reply | Quote
Re: Who made the hardware?


Don't know if this helps but my 1964 stand says Dewey on it.
1/10/2010, 9:31 pm Link to this post Send Email to Grefal   Send PM to Grefal
 
gmmiller Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 07-2011
Posts: 17
Reply | Quote
Re: Who made the hardware?


Rogers was basically a "drum assembler" and didn't make any hardware. W and A made just about everything hardware for most drum companies. I have an original swan leg Buck Rogers snare stand that the bottom of the basket is stamped WA-Ludwig. Not really that uncommon depending on how soon the shipment needed to be shipped.
8/8/2011, 2:50 pm Link to this post Send Email to gmmiller   Send PM to gmmiller Blog
 
tommykat1 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

XP10 Dyna-Sonic Member

Registered: 06-2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 6274
Reply | Quote
Re: Who made the hardware?


quote:

gmmiller wrote:

Rogers was basically a "drum assembler" and didn't make any hardware. W and A made just about everything hardware for most drum companies. I have an original swan leg Buck Rogers snare stand that the bottom of the basket is stamped WA-Ludwig. Not really that uncommon depending on how soon the shipment needed to be shipped.



Huh? Certainly early on they didn't make some items, but by the 50s they made all but the shells. I think the last thing phased out was the CAMCO hi hat.
8/8/2011, 3:56 pm Link to this post Send Email to tommykat1   Send PM to tommykat1
 
gmmiller Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 07-2011
Posts: 17
Reply | Quote
Re: Who made the hardware?


Nope. Rogers in it's heyday bought shells from Keller, cut the then unique 45 degree sharp edged bearing edges and drilled for hardware and painted the grey interiors with lead based marine paint and painted or rolled the pearl on the shells and bolted on the hardware. No more, no less.

The hardware was designed by Joe Thompson and farmed out to die cast companies to be cast and machined. Wahlberg and Auge did almost all of their stands. Rogers owned the patents for the Dyna, Swivo and Knobby hardware.

Even metal snares came from outside sources. The Dyna shell is Gretsch!
8/8/2011, 6:56 pm Link to this post Send Email to gmmiller   Send PM to gmmiller Blog
 
tommykat1 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

XP10 Dyna-Sonic Member

Registered: 06-2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 6274
Reply | Quote
Re: Who made the hardware?


Point taken, but some clarification. We know about the Jasper and Keller shells, and bearing edge construction, that's old news around here. And the early 7 line Dyna shells were Gretsch, but not the later 5 line models.

My point was that Rogers re-sold products in their 50s catalogs from other manufacturers--the Camco hi hat stand said Camco, not Rogers, for example. This was later phased out.

The Swivo and Memriloc products were Rogers designs and were (and in many ways still are) cutting edge, regardless of whether they were machined (Ohio Swivo era) or cast (Fullerton) by outside machine shops.

To trivialize Rogers as a "drum assembler," "no more no less" marginalizes the company's worth, like saying Ford or Chevy is only an assembler of cars from parts built by other manufacturers. It's the engineering that counts.

Last edited by tommykat1, 8/8/2011, 11:53 pm
8/8/2011, 11:48 pm Link to this post Send Email to tommykat1   Send PM to tommykat1
 
gmmiller Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info



Registered: 07-2011
Posts: 17
Reply | Quote
Re: Who made the hardware?


Wasn't my intention to trivialize their contribution. Only to point out the daily operations were a basic wood shop and assembly line with quality being the whole point.

Joe Thompson was an absolutly gifted design genius and changed just about everything that was standard then. Even Swan Leg stands while being a throwback to earlier "standard" stands has a point. Everyone else's "new" flat based stands were unstable. The Swan Leg was more stable because it had a wide stable base to support the load. Imagine a Zildjian 24 or 26" heavy ride on a wobbly flat based stand. The Rogers stand easily holds this weight and the u-clamps hold the tubes tightly.

Some things were purely accidental but extremely important. The grey lead based marine paint is 60% lead! It's intention was to keep the shells from absorbing moisture. It did that. But, it actually made it a metal lined shell that helped focus the intensity of the head vibrations and amplify it along with the ultra precision sharp 45 degree bearing edge. These shells DO NOT have resonance but instead have a sound focus and attack no other drum has ever had.

I'm probably as passionate about Rogers as anyone can be and since I originally planned to resurrect Rogers before Brooke Mays bought the name we did tons of research about how and why Rogers are different from any other manufacturer at the time the Cleveland drums were made.

We tend to dramatize what Rogers really was and I get that. But really, Rogers was an assembler with a genius parts designer that was smart enough to do patents and got suppliers to do exclusive contracts. Wahlberg and Auge was a metal fabrication plant that did contract work. Keller makes wood forms for pouring concrete and only made shells to keep the machines running. They were never a high volume item. Various Ohio Foundry's made thousands of different castings for all kinds of different products.

For a very brief period of time it all came together and some of the most memorable drums of all time happened. For that I am grateful.
8/9/2011, 2:46 pm Link to this post Send Email to gmmiller   Send PM to gmmiller Blog
 
Dan1C Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

ROF Resident Guru

Registered: 05-2009
Location: Getin-sitdown-shutup-holdon
Posts: 955
Reply | Quote
Re: Who made the hardware?


The only Rogers metal snares built with shells from Gretsch were the early Holidays and Dynasonics. These did not have the 2 'trenches' around the top and bottom of the shell: that is how they are identified. the Dyna did have the seven etched lines, but that's all.

Every drum manufacturer was an 'assembler' The only company I know that made some of their own hardware was Camco.
The investment in infrastructure was too large to justify for a relatively low volume, so the drum builders jobbed out their hardware needs to various metal fabrication companies around the US. W&A being the main one, but I'm sure there were others, each with their own specialties. Machining parts from solid steel is a very different operation than making diecast parts from 'pot metal', a zinc alloy, so the various parts probably came from different sources.

In manufacturing, then and now, components small and large are outsourced to subsidiaries or stand-alone companies. It makes economic sense for the infrasructure costs stated above, and also it allows the manufacturer to leverage the engineering expertise at the component firm.

In reality, just about every manufacturer is an 'assembler'. Not just the drum companies. Always have been....

---
All Rogers, all the time.
8/9/2011, 4:54 pm Link to this post Send Email to Dan1C   Send PM to Dan1C Blog
 


Add a reply

Page:  1  2 





You are not logged in (login)